By Karin Kaiser on Saturday, November 10, 2001 - 09:02 am:

Hi everyone,

Before I get into a lot of writing about myself,
I'll check to see if you have notice that the
website is working again.

Looking forward to any posts.

Karin

By Park Griffin on Tuesday, November 13, 2001 - 10:36 am:

Hi Karin, how are things going??? My wife had prolo session number 15 a couple of weeks ago... The doctor decided to stop for three months and see how her body responds. Hopefully, she can enter a maintenance phase now. Michelle, "blew" the lower quadrant of her Right Side Short Posterior SI ligament. Even though her SI is staying in place, there is constant pressure on her remianing ligaments. The doctor is hoping that a couple of prolo sessions a year will keep the remaining ligaments strong. Park

By Karin Kaiser on Wednesday, November 14, 2001 - 04:38 pm:

Hi Park, just added a message jesterday and
discovered that my new post didn't show.????

Just got a flu shot and I'm terrible sore
from that. So, not in the mood to wright again.

Thanks, for posting again and I'm glad to hear,
your wife is making little progress?

I may feel better tomorrow and report how
my progress is working. Karin

By Karin Kaiser on Thursday, November 15, 2001 - 10:55 am:

I found some old (1982)evaluation papers from
my first Chiropracticer. Now I'm really scared
what I have read.

Abnormal narrowing of the intervertebral disc
spaces, compressive stress biomechanics T-4
through T-8, some degenerative changes in the
intervertebal discs of C-5/6 and 6/7,
excessive anterior stress compressiong wedging
of the vertebral bodies of T-6/7/8, etc., etc.
incl. spondylitis of C-5/6 and T-4

At that time I had no clue what that all meant.
I've been struggeling ever since and now I can't
go back because he closed his practice long ago.

Everytime I go to Kaiser Foundation for x-rays
(sectionals) they don't see anything wrong with
me, except to say that there is evidence of
bonspurse and arthritis in my back. Through
weightbaring,extreme physical activities,
elongated spine, strechted out ligaments...
is this is the endresult???? My last option is
Prolotherapy?

The injections alternate....upper back and lower
back. My problem is my lower back to hold up
my upper back? The dr. I'm seeing now, goes by
the thumb-rule, where it hurts, that will be the
injection side.Need to discuss this with her.
So far, I had only 3 injections in my lower back.
Do I need to change the dr.? My back has cost
me a small fortune, then Kaiser Fond. will not
cover this.

Had to get this of my chest. I'm tired of having
chronic pain.Thanks for listening. Karin
Excuse my English. Was not born in this country.
Look at my name. Shouldn't Kaiser Found. treat
me a little better, LOL, LOL

By Park Griffin on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 06:00 am:

1982 is a long time ago. The bone/spine scanning procedures of today will show much of the issues as related to the chiropractors finding in '82. Simply stated if you had a quality scan in 2001 that didn't show anything. I would not worry about the 1982 assessment.

By Karin Kaiser on Friday, November 16, 2001 - 01:51 pm:

I'm just about to give up.My post this morning,
which I checked was right there, and now it just
doesn't show.

Here is a short message. Park, thanks for re-
sponding, and I'll have another injection next
week. There are changes in my back, very stiff
joints...right side only. Here is the inbalance question again.

Stay in touch, and I'll do the same.Good luck to
you and your wife. Karin

By MikF on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:39 am:

Park,

I know you are expert on SI joints so I was wondering if you could possibly answer a question for me and tell me if it's possible for the ligaments there to cause the rest of the body to get pulled out of place ?

And if so , where you would need to be injected to couter the effects ?

thank you

Mike Falkenberg

By Park Griffin on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 08:11 am:

When your SI goes out certain ligaments may appear stretched, but they are only loose because of the misalignment. Many prolotherapists are eager to prolo the heck out if all the ligaments, but this makes obtaining an alignment correction harder. (It is hard enough to obtain a correction without the added burden of ligaments that are tighter than normal creating too much resistance).

The best thing to do is only inject the short posterior SI ligament and the long posterior SI ligament. These ligaments are always safe to inject. They will make obtaining and holding a manual alignment easier. At times it is warranted to inject the iliolumbar ligaments, but these ligaments should only be injected if there was a twisting (torsion injury at L5-S1).

The reason why the rest of the body gets pulled out of place is because of the subluxation (minor dislocation of the sacral segment S3 from the innominate bone (the part of the pelvis that comprises the SI joint)). Obtaining a full correction so that the sacrum and pelvis mesh together at the SI joints properly, then working on inner core strengthening and stabilzation exercises to help hold the SI's in place are what is going to be of benifit.

Note: Prolotherapy is NOT A CURE!!! It aids in being able to obtain and hold a correction of the SI joints! Yes prolotherapy is no cure, but it has been a blessing for those unable to obtain and hold a correction of the SI's.

Look at it this way. When somebody is water skiing, they have to learn to get themselves out of the water and up on the ski's before they can actually ski. The act of getting up out of the water is different than skiing. You can't ski until you learn to get up on the ski's. Sacroiliac Joint Dysfunction obtains it's "chronicity" due to the above analogy. If someone has SIJD, it is very difficult to get the subluxation corrected. HOWEVER, AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT HOWEVER; STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT IT IS PATHOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DO THE KINDS OF EXERCISES NEEDED TO FET RID OF THE CHRONIC PAIN AND DYSFUNCTION ASSOCIATED WITH SIJD WITH THE SI JOINTS SUBLAXED!!!

Many professionals get too impatient with their care of SIJD. Similar to the boat driver getting impatient with a skier who can not get up on the skis, figuring, "If I use full throttle on the boat and rip the skier out of the water maybe they'll ski." It don't work that way!

You need to find knowlegeable and patient professionals for your best chance.

Good Luck!!! Park

By Greg on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 09:56 am:

Park,

You should write a book on SIJD!!! You obviously know a lot. My SI's are terrible, I've tried everything but prolo on them, with little benefit other than pain relief. I have abandoned my PT exercises because they were actually causing me more pain. When I stopped doing them, I did notice severe and almost instant muscular atrophy, but a noticable decrease in pain. When the pain gets really bad, I take an ultram and that usually helps significantly, or I can always do a self-adjustment. I've had prolo on my shoulder and a badly injured neck, but I am truly dreading the thought of prolo on my SI's because they are so incredibley sensitive. When I get an adjustment, I usually lose it by the time I reach my car Any input would be great. Thanks!

Greg

By Park Griffin on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:02 pm:

My wife had 15 prolo sessions spaced one month apart. The first set is the worse because of the nature of it being the first. As the months go by the shots are not as bad. Also, if you can get your prolotherapist to inject only the short and long posterior SI ligaments you will be better off. Have them stay away from the sacrotuberous and sacrospinous ligaments. Also, stay away from the iliolumbar ligaments. These ligaments don't stretch when your SIJ's sublax. Only the long and short posterior SI ligaments do. Although, you can have a tear in the front joint capsule, but prolotherapy won't help that.

Really, there are only four options:

1. Physical therapy to correct the sublaxation -
then exercise.

2. PT and prolo with exericise

3. It the above two don't work, some try surgical
fixation/fusion of the SI Joint

4. Live with it and move on. (My wife lived with
it for 4 and 1/2 years before finding
qualified help)!

P.S. I am no expert in the field! But, I have
learned an awful lot about SIJD in the last
4 years !

The best site for reading articles on SIJD is this site: www.kalindra.com

Park

By Deborah Kelly on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 12:11 pm:

My name is Deborah and I have been in pain for over 4 years in the area of rib T10,T9 and T8.
I have been on many different pain medicienes, I have nerves related to that area Frozen and Burn with a lot of nerve blocks in between. I now completed my seven set of prolo and still I have pain. I was told that I have Slipping Rib Syndrome. Does any have any information that could help me. Thank you.

By MIkF on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 02:18 pm:

Hello Park,

If some one where to get pain that ran all the way from the part of the Si joint closest to the spine up till the top of the neck , would ligament would you say causing the damage out of the possibly three you mentioned in your earier post ?

Thanks

Mike Falkenberg

By Karin Kaiser on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 05:39 pm:

Yes, That's what I'm going thru right now. My
whole spine is a mess and my dr. alternates the
shots. Yesterday I had my 8th treatment, mostly
SI joints and mid back. Need to learn the techn.
terms of the spine. Next project for me. I feel
wonderful especially the hip area today. But Park is right. This is not a cure but a means to an end.I've been struggling with laxity joints over 15 years.If you can, stay away from to many adjustments by a Chiropractor anti-inflammatory drugs.Right now I'm battling that the joints are
to tight. According to the book, that is a good
sign and the Prolotreatments are working.Also,
to be patient,patient, patient. Nothing will
work over night because you are dealing with a
soft tissue problem. In April of this year I
couldn't move without my joints slipping all over
the place. Or one side would be real stiff and
I was not able to move my head right or left.
Park is right, there are so many ligaments and
joints connected to each other. That's what makes
us walk and function.

By Park Griffin on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:23 pm:

Mike, I would acually suspect the erector spinae muscle group. It is a group of muscles that originate from the sacrum and run up along side of the back. These muscles tighten up severly with SIJD. The piriformis muscle is another muscle that tightens with SIJD. The piriformis muscle causes butt and hip pain. The erector muscle group causes neck, shoulder, back, amd rib pain.

By Karin Kaiser on Wednesday, November 21, 2001 - 06:39 pm:

Deborah, I'm experience this now. The top muscle
above the rib cage are not hurting. I feel like
it's the muscle under the rib cage and my old
chirop. said more than 15 years ago, that is
the hardest part to adjust. In my case it would
eventually disappear.Also, I'm not going to any
chirop. right now. I'm sorry, I can not help
you with any of this, maybe Park can help you.
Are you getting any treatments right now?
Remember, everything is connected in our body.
Ligaments (tons of it), tendons, joints etc.
The book "Prolo your Pain Away" says, most of
our problems are tissue related and most dr.
are treating the muscle and are eager to
prescrib pills for that.

Keep in touch and good luck to you.

By Deborah Kelly on Wednesday, December 26, 2001 - 02:18 pm:

To Park Griffin,

Have you heard of Slipping Rib Syndrome. I have been in pain for 4 years and have many nerve blocks, Nerves in my back frozening and also burned. Have also had many different types of pain killers, pills for depression etc. I am now had 9 sessions of prolothery. Do you know any more info that may help me stop the pain.

Thank you, Deborah Kelly

By Park Griffin on Friday, December 28, 2001 - 06:19 am:

I am sorry to hear about the "chronicity" of your problem. I don't know anything about "slipping rib syndrome". If I were you, if you haven't all ready, I'd run a search using the website: www.google.com I ran a quick search by typing:
"slipping rib syndrome" (using the parenthesis) and came up with quite a few webistes on the disorder. Good luck!!! Park