By Paul on Sunday, June 04, 2000 - 12:43 pm:

My doctor refused to authorize prolo treatments
because, according to him, the procedure has never been
scientifically evaluated. As a result we do not know
whether positive results are atypical or due to a placebo
effect.

Has anyone conducted such a study? If not, shouldn't that
arouse suspicion?

By Rick on Sunday, June 04, 2000 - 12:44 pm:

Paul,

To hell with "studies." I'm in the early stages of prolotherapy and have seen multiple other doctors. If you have genetic hypermobility, prolotherapy CAN help you
tighten up those joints if the doctor has proper training! I can say from personal experience that prolo will work. And I have my other doctors believing now too.
The reason why there have been no "documented studies" is because the pharmaceutical companies feel threatened by it because they want you to be on their pain
medications for the rest of your life and are afraid of losing business. Most doctors don't like prolo because it could eliminate the need for a lot of their orthopedic
surgeries, which earn them about 5 to 10 times more money than simple prolotherapy treatment would. Just my take on the situation, but it's only been six weeks
for me on prolo and I am already a believer.

Rick

By Jonathan B on Sunday, June 04, 2000 - 12:44 pm:

Hi
Surely if Prolotherapy had not been through clinical trials it would be illegal to perform the procedure.
I suspect that your doctor doesnt know very much about it but doesn't want to admit it or something like that.
Just a thought,not too contraversial when you consider how little most doctors know about HMS in the first place.
jonathan

By Ian on Sunday, June 04, 2000 - 12:45 pm:

Well done, Rick. Often you will find Doctors giving drugs to suppress pain. This does not cure the problem. I have read many entries like yours where Prolo has got
the ligaments attached and in better condition. Prolo is not suppressing a problem but providing a cure.

I am simply a believer of trying out things that have worked for others. Pain suppressants and, worst of all, the knife treatment are too often the fix suggested by
Doctors.

By Julie on Sunday, June 04, 2000 - 12:45 pm:

I've suffered for over a year from a sacroiliac joint sprain from lifting a heavy box. At times the intense burning pain in my lower back and left leg seemed
unbearable. I read about prolo on the internet and begged my Dr. (Worker's Comp) to let me try it but he said I was not a suitable candidate (I have since found out
he is simply narrow-minded). After reading Dr. Hauser's book on prolo I decided to fly to Chicago to have him perform prolo on my SI joint. After two treatments I
am thrilled to say the burning pain has subsided about 90%. I plan on having at least 2 more treatments. Insurance doesn't usually cover this but it is not terribly
expensive (a few hundred dollars) and it is very safe. Read a book on prolotherapy to answer your initial questions, find a good practioner and go for it! Julie

By David on Sunday, June 04, 2000 - 12:46 pm:

See The Lancet, July 1987, p. 143-146,
"A new approach to the treatment of chronic
low back pain," by Milne J. Ongley, Robert G.
Klein, Thomas A. Dorman, Bjorn C. Eek, and
Lawrence J. Hubert.

This paper describes a clinical double-blind
study comparing Ongley's method of prolotherapy
treatment of lower back pain to a placebo
treatment. 81 patients participated in the study.
In the experimental group, 88% (35 of 40)
had disability score improvements of greater
than 50% 6 months after treatment, vs. 16 of 41
with such improvements in the control group.
15 of the experimental group were disability
free after 6 months versus only 4 in the control
group.

The Lancet is the premier British medical
journal.

Ask your doctor how many double blind clinical
studies have been performed on surgical options.
(Placebo spinal fusion, anyone?)

I will say, however, that prolotherapy requires
training and skill. There appears to be some
physicians doing prolotherapy without adequate
training and skill. I was treated by Dr. Milne
Ongley last summer, and my pain is reduced at
least 50%. I regard Ongley as the best.

By Park Griffin on Wednesday, June 21, 2000 - 06:12 am:

If you want to know how prolotherapy works ask a skeptical doctor to show you documentation and studies on how the natural healing system of the body works. Guess what? They will not be able to help you. The reason is simple. Nobody heals naturally. We are immediately pumped up with medication appropriate for our condition. It's like the commercial for tootsie pops. How many licks does it take to reach the chewy center? Remember the owl... one - two - three ...crunch... it takes three. Also another reason for the lack of studies is funding. The medical community is not interested in funding studies in prolotherapy where they "feel comfortable" in the conventional stratagies of patient care. However, they will fund a study in prolotherapy for severely injured patients that have disabling conditions where conventional therapies offer no hope. My wife's best friend is a medical insurance claims advisor. She is the person who originally introduced the procedure to us. She told us that the managed care industry knows that it works, but they are keeping tight lipped about it because it is easy to deny coverage. It lacks studies and the exact mechanism of action is not clear (again because of the scientific communities lack of complete knowledge on how the natural healing process works). I believe that prolotherapy works. I am pushing for it to reach the mainstream medical community as a front line conservative approach to pain management and soft tissue repair. However rare that they are, I would highly suggest trying to find a doctor who is board certified in Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, Sports Medicine, or physiatry. One angle that helps to find such a doctor is to find a doctor who believes that fibromyalgia is a physical medical condition and is willing to do whatever is medically sound to help the fibromyalgia patient. We found such a doctor in Ohio. All three doctors in the practice are board certified in Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation. Through there desire to help fibromyalgia patients they turned to prolotherapy to improve patient outcomes. Also, they have added prolotherapy to their sports medicine treatment regiment. Again it improved patient outcome. Beware of Doctors who make a living at prolotherapy. Most likely they are in it for the money.

By Eppie on Thursday, June 22, 2000 - 01:27 pm:

Placebo effect my fanny...the "skeptics" have obviously never been in real pain from chronically unstable ligaments. I, for one, can appreciate pain relief, and prolotherapy (in just four quick sessions) has offered me that. Throw away those pain pills and depressing attitudes and try it. IT REALLY, REALLY WORKS!

By Laurie on Sunday, June 25, 2000 - 03:47 pm:

I hope this really really works. I went through my first injections yesterday with a very unique doctor. If this works for me, I will be a very happy person. From the attitudes of this message board and other sights I have visited, nobody has complained about it being a worthless procedure. I am a washed up competitive water skier who wishes she could ski again without pain. we'll see!

By Heather Archibald on Wednesday, July 12, 2000 - 01:38 pm:

Dear Anyone
Can you please advise me if Prolotherapy.Is avalible in the UK. I live in Scotland and have just found out about Dr Ongleys work.I cannot afford to travel, to Mexcico were his clinic is, for treatment.I am in a living hell with all sorts of joints.I would like to have my life back .I feel this is the answer.If any of you are having treatment in America.Could you ask you consultands.If anyone does this work.In the UK.

Thankyou God Bless Heather

By Johanna on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 01:59 am:

Could anyone summarise in which countries Prolo is available and in which not?

By Sheena on Thursday, July 13, 2000 - 06:18 am:

Dear Heather
There is a well-known alternative practitioner in Troon called Jan de Vries. He treated my sister when she had bad wrist problems. Eventually he gave her injections - I don't know whether that was prolotherapy or not - but it worked. It might be worth asking what treatment he offers. He writes in the Belfast Telegraph online at

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/newjan/

(but you won't get an answer very quickly that way - better to phone).
Good luck
Sheena

By Vince F on Wednesday, October 04, 2000 - 11:00 am:

Prolo came up on a Med BB I frequent and I did
more searching to give members more detailed info
than i remember as a kid when my mom's 20 yr back
problem was Cured in 2 days by a surgeon who Used
to cut a Jefferson Hosp. In Phila till he found
the treatment and stoped cuting. It Works !!

I know 5 people who were treated and cured and
even a girl friend I tried to talk out of an
operation but went through with it and they hit a
nerve and messed up her leg. She Finally went for
the treatment having to load up on Percadan to get
to the app a few weeks after the operation when her
pains had come back worse than before and he Dr
said she was cured. It took a little longer for
her to be cured because of the damage from her
surgery but the next yr she asked me if she could
o skiing so i told her to ask the Dr. He didn't
recomend it but said if she got hurt she could
come back and get more treatments. She went skiing
and was fine and for 20 yrs has been pain free. My
mom had the treatment 40 yrs ago and hasn't had a
problem since.

VF

By Christine on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 03:16 am:

David has an excellent point about there being no double-blind studies for surgery. Medicine can be so full of contradictions...I am so completely cynical now I have realised there is so much more than your best interests that go into most medical decisions.

There are quite a few prolo studies, most notably the Ongley et al. one mentioned (note: don't see Dr Ongley anybody! He gets results, but when I spoke to him on the phone he was such a jerk. He told me the people his treatment didn't work for are 'fools'! He was insanely rude and insulting to me.)

Prolotherapy studies can never be 100% conclusive, but anyone with half a brain (or at least an open mind) can tell that the prolo shots are obviously the factor in the studies that accounts for the improvement in the patient. It is very easy for people to dissect the studies and find fault when it suits them, but how many of them do this with other treatments, like surgery and drugs?

The fact is people who complete a course of prolo treatments are very often cured when they have tried everything else to no avail. It makes me so MAD when skeptics say it's a placebo effect. Personally, if I was able to get cured from a placebo effect, it would have happened long ago with any of the treatments I believed would fix my problem.

By Mr G on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 05:11 am:

I checked that site about Jan de Vries and he says no he knows of practices it in the uk . He never mentioned anything about doing it himself .

You can read it for yourself on the letters page.

By Christine on Sunday, March 11, 2001 - 07:49 am:

Anyone looking for prolotherapists in the UK or other parts of the world:

Go to Dr Thomas Dorman's website www.dormanpub.com

Once you have entered the site, go to the menu on the right-hand side and click on 'Find A Doctor'. Then check the box prolotherapy and select your country and hit search and a list will come up. There are 19 prolo doctors listed for the UK.

Be warned though - I went to 2 Australian doctors off the list and they were very inexperienced. One even refused to treat me because he said my problem was fibromyalgia, not hypermobility, which is totally wrong. I did however find a prolo doctor in Australia with decent experience and knowledge from that list. Later I found out he is the only doc in Australia that specialises in prolo, and all the others on the list learnt it off him a couple of years ago at a weekend seminar.

So call or email all the ones in your country and ask them a billion or so questions - how much experience they have, whether they've treated multiple joints at once (if you need this), their success rate etc.