By Lin on Saturday, December 09, 2000 - 12:33 pm:

i horse back ride a few times a week, and take lessons once a week where i jump. my left arm has many problems, no reflex, loss in coordination and function, tingling for no reason from the elbow down that may be from an "irritated" ulnar nerve, and i cant feel any pain inside the bone or muscle. i have had a normal EMG, and ANA, sed rate, and CBC. i am 15, and my parents stopped searching for answers when my knees got bad (chondromalacia patella) so i have to wait until that is fixed before i continue with my arm. that might be a while, i am in physical therapy. but the reason why i am asking for help is because my riding instructor noticed the trouble in my left arm. when the left is to the inside of the arena, i guess i tend to hang on to the rein, i dont mean to, i guess my arm just is kinda limp, i do notice that much. my wrist flops down a bit and my arm rests on the horses withers pulling the rein. my instructor knows i am not doing it for balance or anything, because i have good balance, and there is no problem on the inside rein with my right hand. i was wondering if anyone has ideas of what i can do to help stabalize my wrist or arm or something. i considered a ridgid wrist brace, but if i needed to bend my wrist inside for control for any reason, i would be introuble... so i am a dead end here, please, any suggestions? i love riding and realy hate that hms is causing me problems.
Lin

By Lin on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 03:16 pm:

sorry, its been a long day, and i would just like to sarcasticaly respond, thanks for all the help everyone, that is if anyone actualy reads this. the title was probably misleading, people are probably thinking that since they dont know anything about horseback riding they cant help. well i would appreciate some suggestions, doesnt take an expert on horseback riding to make a suggestion or comment that shows at least people are trying. i try and help no matter what, if i dont know specificaly on the topic, etc, i let it be known i am probably incorrect and still try a suggestion to let people know i am out there and trying to help the best i can. i am sorry to all of you that know exactly how i feel when i feel so alone, etc, and dont mean to come off rude and unappreciative, the people on this board are so helpful i dont know what i would do without it. but please, any suggestions?
Lin

By Gwen on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 07:00 pm:

Lin, you are having a bad day! Let it all hang out and blow your vents if it makes you feel better. I've had a couple of sessions of howling at the world via this medium and it does make me feel better, especially as I know that when I do this I'm not taking it out on my long suffering family.
I think this forum serves an important function as a wailing wall because we can respond to the meaning and not the content of what others are saying without taking on board all that emotion that floats around when we are in pain and feel no-one knows or cares how we feel.
I'm not sure whether your horse-riding caption was for real or just a ploy to catch someone's attention but I am a horse rider of over 40 years experience so if it is a genuine enquiry about HMS and horseriding repost and I'll answer. Meantime try to relax, listen to gentle music and think beautiful thoughts. Don't get caught up in the mania and hypocrisy of Christmas. Cuddles!

By Lin on Saturday, December 23, 2000 - 11:41 pm:

look at the original message, i realy dont think i need to retype it. it is genuinly about horse back riding, just read it, the original message that i vented about no one responding, and then you replied, thanks =) makes me feel loved lol =) i have always had a little trouble, but recently gotten worse. so just read my original message at the top. thanks.
Lin

By Gwen on Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 10:38 am:

Hi Lin, haven't had a chance to get back to you because of the madness and hypocrisy of Xmas but now have a little spare time so here goes.
You don't say what stage your riding is at but I guess if you are jumping you aren't an absolute beginner so I won't need to use words of one syllable or s p e a k v e r y s l o w l y.

A couple of thoughts come to mind. You say the trouble is predominantly when you're working on the left rein. Has your instructor checked that you are sitting squarely. There is always a tendency to drop the inside hip when working on a circle and lean into the centre. This could be just enough to through your entire spine out of sync and cause pressure on your ulnar nerve up in the neck, shoulder area, especially if you are having problems in that area anyway.
Another problem may in fact be with your pony. Maybe he is stiff on the right and is resisting when you want to ride on the left rein and making you work harder to get him to bend. If you have a good instructor s/he would have picked that up before now. If it is your own pony and this is part of the problem maybe you should think about lungeing him for about 20 minutes a day, predominantly on the left rein to get him to supple up.
Does he lean on the bit? If that is the case, is it because he is unbalanced and needs work to lighten up the front end or is his anatomy such that he naturally carries his head low (ie straight shoulder, heavy short neck?
What size pony/horse do you ride? Maybe you could go down a size or ride one that is a bit lighter in the mouth. Have you thought about putting him in a more severe bit so that you don't need to use as much hand when riding? How effective are your leg aids? If you can develop them you'd need to use lighter hand aids. All my horses I trained to respond totally to leg aids for direction changes and mostly used my seat to control speed although still had to use hand aids to some extent. What I found hardest was the "smaller" aids such as spongeing to ask my horse to flex as this relied more on wrist/finger than asking to slow down which I could do with shoulder/elbow movement.
As you say, a rigid wrist brace would only hamper your riding. Have you considered just using a light strapping, something that is firm enough to give support without immobilising it. I have problems with my left shoulder and the physio uses strapping along the length of my shoulder and down my arm to restrict the internal rotation and support it. Could you try something similar with your wrist. Position your wrist as if you were holding a rein and then get someone (good old Mum?) to place three strips of 3" wide tape from your knuckles to about three inches up your forearm. Secure both ends with strapping around your arm and hand to stop them rolling up. This should give you enough support without restricting your movement too much. If your ulnar nerve is causing the problem maybe you should also get your neck and elbow checked out as it sounds as if the interference is coming from higher up.
Hope this is of some help. Email me if you want clarification of anything or if I can be of further assistance.

By Lin on Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 11:00 am:

ok, i am trying to repost here instead of e-mailing you, so i hope you check back =) I should have explained my riding better... ok, i have been riding for 6 years. My seat is very good, my instructor told me when i first started riding i had the perfect seat, and must have riden in a past life it came so naturaly. unfortunatly, since then i had some problems with my seat when scoliosis popped up, but all is good again =) I am very good with my leg aids, better so then with my hand aids, because my horse i ride for pleasure (he is 30 years old) and he is a bit stubborn and hard to turn, doesnt respond well to leg commands, but i ride, well, i guess better horses in lessons. the horse i ride in lessons is a privately owned horse, and the owner is great friends with the stable owner, and lets a few more experienced riders ride him in lessons so he gets exercise. He is a wonderful horse, very experienced and a great jumper =). the problem isnt him, he is tighter on the right then the left. what happens is my arm, is kind of limp, i dont have such fine control with it anymore, i am trying to get it taken care of, but my parents arent so happy with all my other medical bills. so my arm kind of ends up resting on the withers and my wrist angled down and hangs his mouth a bit, which isnt so noticeable on the outside. my riding instructor is wonderful, she was going to the olympics with a wonderful dressage horse of hers 4 years ago, but he got very sick, and is just finally completely recovering, and she thinks he will be too old in the next olympics. it could possibly be higher up, i used to have a problem with stiffness in my shoulders. thanks for the help!
Lin

By Andrea on Monday, February 05, 2001 - 01:04 pm:

Lin, from the way you describe your symptoms in your wrist I think that your ligaments and tendons in your left arm are so weak that they are not even holding your joints in the position you want them to stay in. Your joints, and in particular your wrist then just "give" and you end up with your hand in a position you had never intended it to be in, without you noticing it. This phenomenon is quite common in HMS sufferers, especially when we are holding on to something for any length of time (in your case the reins). There is, however, one thing you could do to strengthen your arm and shoulder muscles to reduce this problem: swimming, especially back stroke. That would stretch and tone at the same time and probably get rid of the tingling sensation due to your irritated ulnar nerve. Horse riding is a wonderful sport but it does very little for your shoulder and, particularly arm muscles.

Lin, if you find it difficult to understand what I have written, why not print it out and show it to your parents, physiotherapist, riding instructor, and perhaps even your sports teacher?
I believe that if you tackled this problem with your wrist now you might just prevent high medical bills in future. You have youth on your side and you come across as a very determined young lady. What an asset! And good luck.

By Lin on Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 02:12 pm:

i understand perfectly, i dont mean to sound rude, (sorry if i seem to say this alot and sound rude) but in case that was a mention because of my age, i dont appreciate it. i am not trying to stereotype adults, but i have found many dont give minors the same respect and speak as freely to as they would another adult. the problem is with the nerve, i am pretty sure of it. its not an irritated ulnar nerve, since posting i had severe pains down that arm, and ended up back at my orthopedic surgeon. had an MRI, that was normal, and x-rays of my head and neck. the x ray showed subluxations of the bones in the bottom of my neck, and there was no natural curve to the vertebrae in my neck, the MRI showed the subluxations were gone (not surprising with the hms) and tuled out a herniated disc, and i had the EMG that was normal too, so now i am to see a specialist at the university of chicago hospitals to find out the problem. that was a good suggestion, weak ligaments, that could attribute to it because i find my wrists are some of my worst joints for subluxations.... thanks!
Lin

By Lin on Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 05:17 pm:

ok, to clarify this, i was trying to explain that if andrea was insinuating that i wouldnt understand her advice and to go talk to an adult to explain it to me, i didnt appreciate that. i am very sorry if i sounded angry, i appreciate all advice i get here! i would go crazy without this board! and Andrea, i am sorry because you probably didnt mean for it to sound that way, so sorry if i was getting too defensive.
Lin

By Gwen on Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 02:11 pm:

Lin, Hi. Just to let you know I recently had surgery on my elbow for tingling and numbness along the ulnar distribution of my left arm. I had nerve conduction studies done about eleven years ago, which were all normal and had an ulnar release done at that time which made no diffrence whatsoever.
Over the last six months the problem was getting severe enough to wake me at night. My doctor said it was just because I was lying on the arm even tho it also happened when I was awake and most definitely not lying on it. Eventually I persuaded him to send me to a surgeon. It turned out that the nerve was not staying in postion in the groove at the head of the ulnar but slipping out and getting pinched by my triceps muscle as I had my elbow bent. What he has done is deepened the groove and nicked a wee bit out of the triceps to make room for the nerve.
Early days yet as it's just over a week since the operation but I haven't had any numbness since even though I'm pretty sore and the bruising is technicolour the whole length of my arm. I have also found that the strength is starting to return to that side of my hand too. Since having the surgery I also realise that I have similar but milder symptoms with my right arm. I guess that while the left was bothersome it minimised the right.
Maybe you are having something similar happen to you especially as you have your elbows bent and lower arms unsupported when riding. Just a thought!

By Lin on Friday, February 09, 2001 - 02:29 pm:

its not that, i was checked for that, thats what the neurosurgeon who performed my EMG guessed it was, so i had a bunch of x rays and stuff taken to rule that out. but thanks!
Lin

By Sally on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 03:49 am:

Hi Lin,

I'm fifteen years old as well and have been riding for eleven years, i have HMS and I basically cannot ride anymore, because everything dislocates all the time!! I understand exactly what your going through with weakness in your arms. I was being trained by olympic riders and I was in the state SJ squad, and it was very hard to cope with my injuries. I guess your actually lucky in one way, because its only affecting one arm and not every joint in your body, maybe you could have surgery on your arm where they put a camera inside you to see whats going on, and then they can better see problems without actually hurting anything. Im not sure wot type of treatments you prefer (as in natural or artificial) and also did you actually have a medical condition or is that wot u r trying to find out? Im sure it says in all the other postings somewhere but its too much for me to read while im studying. Anyway i think its great that i've met you coz we're basically in the same position!! I have like ten beautiful thoroughbreds going to waste in the paddock right now, maybe we can help each other out.

Sal

By hamfist on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 03:13 pm:

Hi Sal,

Although it must be a distressing decision to move away from the horse scene, the fact is that any jarring exercise or sport is a disaster for a person with hyper mobile joints. Good muscle tone is essential but that must be achieved by resistance exercises and not aerobics or similar.

Ian

By Lin on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 10:27 pm:

Sally, well I had the problem above with my arm fixed, it was a nerve problem. But I do also have many problems with all my joints. I jump, and ride dressage. When I jump, my back and knees and ankles get so bad. And also I have problems with my left hip when it will subluxate while riding and I cant move my left leg without EXCRUCIATING pain. But I am still riding, I have a lot of other problems, depression etc and riding is the only thing that keeps me sane. Pain for pain, trading emotional for physical...

By Lin on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 10:35 pm:

just another addition. ten beautiful thoroughbreds? wow. I bought a horse back in May, a gorgeous 6 year old fleabitten gray arab. We are soulmates and I love him to pieces. What disciplines did you ride? I am 17 now, been on this board for a while I was diagnosed with EDS type 3 since the earlier post.
Lin

By Rosie on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 07:23 am:

Hi lin, if you are checking this, would you email me on crana@ntlworld.com (if you want). I have read a lot of your messages & i would really like to talk to you. Im 16 from england. well get in touch if you want

rosie x

By Sally on Friday, January 17, 2003 - 01:03 am:

Hi lin, My name is Sally and I am 24, and was an avid horse rider until I was about 16 when I was forced to give it up due to the unbearable pain it caused me because of my HMS (which I have had since birth). A couple of years ago I tried to start again, but my knees could not handle the pressure and kept subluxatng during rising trots & canters etc, so still I do not ride.

I now hoe upsetting it is, and I wish you all the best.

Huge Hugs, Sal xx